Dennett/D’Souza Debate — D’Souza

2008.02.16   prev     next

THIS is Part 2 of 2, of my comments on the Tufts University debate between Daniel Dennett and Dinesh D’Souza of last November.

D’Souza

D’Souza’s arguments against Dennett are for the most part, I think, sound. It’s when he goes off on a tangent about free will and morality that things go awry:

Take a stone rolling down a hill. A stone, quite frankly, has no choice in the matter. The stone rolls. It is a product of nature. We, on the other hand, seem to exist in two dimensions — we are products of nature, but we are also products, ultimately, of free will, of choice, of intentionality, of feelings, of consciousness, of morality. Now I ask you: Where can those things be found under the microscope? Have you ever seen consciousness? No. Dan Dennett argues, because he can’t see it, it doesn’t exist. It’s kind of an illusion. It’s ultimately a sort of projection, an epiphenomenon of material things. Everything has to be reduced to the material — why? Because ultimately a great, wide universe has to be truncated in a procrustean way to make it fit with materialist morality. Half of our experience, the entire subjective dimension, has to be cancelled out. So for Dan, if a computer can process a transaction and you can process a transaction — hey, the computer’s being rational. The computer is human in some fundamental sense, no different from you. And why? Because the result is the same.

Now I think this is a bit of foolishness, that it really perhaps takes a non-academic to see. In other words, we have knowledge of nature not just from the outside — we are like stones — but we also have choice. Here I am, participating in this debate, and our debate is based on free exchange of ideas, and free will. I mean, I could put this microphone down and go sit down. Is the firing of the neurons in my head determining my decision? Is it telling me one way or the other? No! I can go either way. I speak, I stop. So the dimension of free will would seem to suggest that there is a part of us that, one may say, can override the laws of nature. Now, in what way? Obviously if I throw this microphone, its trajectory, its parabola-like motion — it will fall to the ground in obedience to the laws of gravity; I admit all that. But my decision to throw it, I would suggest, is undetermined. And why? Think about it — imagine if all our actions were determined. If that were true, there would be no point in having this debate. There would be no point in us having universities. There would be no point in having morality. Because you could never say to someone, “You shouldn’t do this; you mustn’t do that; this isn’t right,” because they would answer, “What choice do I have in the matter?” You can’t go to Hitler or the Nazis and say, “You shouldn’t wipe out an entire population,” because they would say, “Well, my neurons made me do it.”

I don’t know, to any high extent, what Dennett thinks of these ideas, so please don’t take this as any kind of endorsement of his position. But I see some big problems with them from my own perspective.

If you told the Nazis, “You shouldn’t wipe out an entire population,” would they say, “My neurons make me do it” — or would they simply say, “Go to hell,” then shoot you in the face? I would suggest that the Nazis were motivated not by a failure to believe in free will, but rather by some innate love of violence, and/or a personal anger over great disappointments in their own lives. Society is filled with such individuals, and the way we protect ourselves from them is via a combination of force, deterrence, and detection. The Nazi disaster was due to local circumstances (largely created by the punitive “war debt” inflicted on post-WWI Germany) in which the rage-motivated segment of the population could take over the government.

A microphone flying through the air on a parabolic path is an example of the stable behavior of a two-body (Earth-and-microphone) system. But the “three-body” problem is famously known to have no stable solution; to exhibit chaotic behavior that is hard to predict in the long-term. The human brain is the multi-billion-body problem, and is therefore that much harder to predict. You can call that unpredictability “free will,” but it doesn’t mean the human mind is “more” than the human brain.

If people don’t believe in free will, will that cause them to shut down universities and stop having interesting philosophical debates? D’Souza directly implies as much, but I see no evidence that any such thing would happen. I myself don’t believe in D’Souza’s concept of free will, and I’m engaging in debate right now. Notice that D’Souza says that there would be “no point” in having universities and debates if we don’t have free will — but he carefully avoided saying that there would be no point in wiping out whole populations if we don’t have free will. Why not? Why would a lack of free will bring pointlessness only to constructive activities? Why also does D’Souza neglect the scenario in which we “have no choice in the matter” of building universities and participating in intellectual debates? Why cannot our neurons make us do those things?

Population Statistics vs. Free Will

But the most important problem with D’Souza’s argument has to do with population statistics. Almost all socially counterproductive violence is perpetrated by males. Does that mean females don’t have free will to choose violence? Do males, for that matter? If everyone has free will to choose violence or nonviolence, why do almost all of those who “freely choose” violence just happen to be male?

If a criminal profiler starts her profile of a serial killer with the presumption that the killer is male, simply based on the statistical fact that almost all serial killers are male (plus no available evidence that this one is female), is she making a mistake by discounting free will? Does free will mean that, no matter what the statistics of past events, this serial killer is just as likely to be female as male, since the population has about the same number of males as females, and all those people have free will to choose whether or not to go on a killing spree?

And by extension, are all population statistics, and the numerous improvements we have made to society by using those statistics to our best advantage, somehow bogus, illusory, or illegitimate, due to free will?

One way to try to dodge this problem is by saying, “OK, males must have a built-in impulse to kill that females generally don’t. But the males can still use free will to choose whether to act on that impulse. Some choose to act on it; others choose not to.” That argument is seriously flawed, because if the presence or absence of a built-in impulse has a profound statistical effect on how many murders are committed by a group of people, then the alleged “free will” is apparently not overriding the presence or absence of that impulse. If free will has final say-so over the decision to be violent, then the statistics should reflect that. The male impulse to kill should be invisible in population data, because it is overridden by free will.

Of course, we don’t observe anything like that. The gender statistic is strong, and proves, all by itself, that most if not all individuals do not have metaphysically free will. Their actions are a function of the predispositions in their brain (as dictated by their DNA) and their perceived likelihood of satisfying those predispositions through action.

D’Souza said he was free to throw his microphone across the room. But he did not throw it — he kept it in his hand and continued talking, well beyond discussion of the microphone-throwing scenario. And, it is certainly worth noting, we can reliably observe that virtually all (99.999% perhaps?) of speakers in public debating forums do not throw their microphones across the room in the middle of their speeches. D’Souza hoped with his words to demonstrate that he was free to throw the microphone, but demonstrated nothing of the sort. The circumstances of the debate and his desire to express his opinions through a functioning microphone were much greater than his desire to see the microphone sail through the air and crash to the floor. Neither D’Souza nor anyone else is “free” to override their circumstances and desires.

 

Update 2008.03.18 — typo correction to “worth noting.”

 

prev     next

 

 

Hear, hear

prev     next

Best recent articles

Make Your Own FBI Backdoor, Right Now

Polygon Triangulation With Hole

The Legacy of Windows Phone

Palm Fan

Vivek Wadhwa, Scamster Bitcoin Doomsayer

Fanboy Features (regularly updated)

When Starting A Game of Chicken With Apple, Expect To Lose — hilarious history of people who thought they could bluff Apple into doing whatever they wanted.

A Memory of Gateway — news chronology of Apple’s ascendancy to the top of the technology mountain.

iPhone Party-Poopers Redux and Silly iPad Spoilsports — amusing litanies of industry pundits desperately hoping iPhone and iPad will go away and die.

Embittered Anti-Apple Belligerents — general anger at Apple’s gi-normous success.

RSS FEED

My books

Now available on Apple Books!

   

Links

Daring Fireball

The Loop

RoughlyDrafted

Macalope

Red Meat

Despair, Inc.

Real Solution #9 (Mambo Mania Mix) over stock nuke tests. (OK, somebody made them rip out the music — try this instead.)

Ernie & Bert In Casino

Great Explanation of Star Wars

Best commercials (IMO) from Super Bowl 41, 43, 45, 46, 47, 53 and 55

Kirk & Spock get Closer

American football explained.

TV: Succession; Better Call Saul; Homeland; Survivor; The Jinx; Breaking Bad; Inside Amy Schumer

God’s kitchen

Celebrity Death Beeper — news you can use.

Making things for the web.

RedQueenCoder.

My vote for best commercial ever. (But this one’s a close second, and I love this one too.)

Recent commercials I admire: KFC, Audi, Volvo

Best reggae song I’ve discovered in quite a while: Virgin Islands Nice

d120 dice: You too (like me) can be the ultimate dice nerd.

WiFi problems? I didn’t know just how bad my WiFi was until I got eero.

Favorite local pad thai: Pho Asian Noodle on Lane Ave. Yes, that place; blame Taco Bell for the amenities. Use the lime, chopsticks, and sriracha. Yummm.

Um, could there something wrong with me if I like this? Or this?

This entire site as a zip file — last updated 2023.10.06

Previous articles

Engström’s Motive

Google’s Decision

Warrening

The Two Envelopes Problem, Solved

The Practical Smartphone Buyer

Would Apple Actually Exit the EU Or UK?

See You Looked

Blackjack Strategy Card (Printable)

Swan Device 1956 — Probable Shape

Pu

RGB-To-Hue Conversion

Polygon Triangulation With Hole

One-Point Implosion: “Palm Fan”

Implosion: Were Those Two-Speed Lenses Really Necessary?

Apple Wants User/Developer Choice; Its Enemies Want Apple Ruin

Tim Sweeney Plays Dumb

The Jury of One

The Lesson of January 6

Amnesia Is Not A Good Plot

I Was Eating for 300 lbs, Not 220

Action Arcade Sounds and Reality

The Flea Market and the Retail Store

Squaring the Impossible

Yes, Crocodiles Are Dinosaurs — Duh

Broccoli and Apples Are Not the Antidote To Donuts and Potato Chips

Cydia and “Competition”

The Gift of Nukes

Prager University and the Anti-Socialists’ Big Blind Spot

In Defense of Apple’s 30% Markup, Part 2

In Defense of Apple’s 30% Markup

Make Your Own FBI Backdoor, Right Now

Storm

The Legacy of Windows Phone

Mindless Monsters

To the Bitter End

“Future Shock” Shock

Little Plutonium Boy

The iPhone Backdoor Already Exists

The Impulse To Be Lazy

HBO’s “Meth Storm” BS

Judos vs. Pin Place

Vizio M-Series 65" LCD (“LED”) TV — Best Settings (IMHO)

Tasting Vegemite (Bucket List)

The IHOP Coast

The Surprise Quiz Paradox, Solved

Apple, Amazon, Products, and Services — Not Even Close

Nader’s Open Blather

Health — All Or Nothing?

Vivek Wadhwa, Scamster Bitcoin Doomsayer

Backwards Eye Wiring — the Optical Focus Hypothesis

Apple’s Cash Is Not the Key

Nothing More Angry Than A Cornered Anti-Apple

Let ’Em Glow

The Ultimate, Simple, Fair Tax

Compassion and Vision

When Starting A Game of Chicken With Apple, Expect To Lose

The Caveat

Superb Owl

NavStar

Basic Reproduction Number

iBook Price-Fixing Lawsuit Redux — Apple Won

Delusion Made By Google

Religion Is A Wall

It’s Not A Criticism, It’s A Fact

Michigan Wolverines 2014 Football Season In Review

Sprinkler Shopping

Why There’s No MagSafe On the New MacBook

Sundar Pichai Says Devices Will Fade Away

The Question Every Apple Naysayer Must Answer

Apple’s Move To TSMC Is Fine For Apple, Bad For Samsung

Method of Implementing A Secure Backdoor In Mobile Devices

How I Clip My Cat’s Nails

Die Trying

Merger Hindsight

Human Life Decades

Fire and the Wheel — Not Good Examples of A Broken Patent System

Nobody Wants Public Transportation

Seasons By Temperature, Not Solstice

Ode To Coffee

Starting Over

FaceBook Messenger — Why I Don’t Use It

Happy Birthday, Anton Leeuwenhoek

Standard Deviation Defined

Not Hypocrisy

Simple Guide To Progress Bar Correctness

A Secure Backdoor Is Feasible

Don’t Blink

Predictive Value

Answering the Toughest Question About Disruption Theory

SSD TRIM Command In A Nutshell

The Enderle Grope

Aha! A New Way To Screw Apple

Champagne, By Any Other Maker

iOS Jailbreaking — A Perhaps-Biased Assessment

Embittered Anti-Apple Belligerents

Before 2001, After 2001

What A Difference Six Years Doesn’t Make

Stupefying New Year’s Stupidity

The Innovator’s Victory

The Cult of Free

Fitness — The Ultimate Transparency

Millions of Strange Devotees and Fanatics

Remember the iPod Killers?

Theory As Simulation

Four Analysts

What Was Christensen Thinking?

The Grass Is Always Greener — Viewing Angle

Is Using Your Own Patent Still Allowed?

The Upside-Down Tech Future

Motive of the Anti-Apple Pundit

Cheating Like A Human

Disremembering Microsoft

Security-Through-Obscurity Redux — The Best of Both Worlds

iPhone 2013 Score Card

Dominant and Recessive Traits, Demystified

Yes, You Do Have To Be the Best

The United States of Texas

Vertical Disintegration

He’s No Jobs — Fire Him

A Players

McEnroe, Not Borg, Had Class

Conflict Fades Away

Four-Color Theorem Analysis — Rules To Limit the Problem

The Unusual Monopolist

Reasonable Projection

Five Times What They Paid For It

Bypassable Security Certificates Are Useless

I’d Give My Right Arm To Go To Mars

Free Advice About Apple’s iOS App Store Guidelines

Inciting Violence

One Platform

Understanding IDC’s Tablet Market Share Graph

I Vote Socialist Because...

That Person

Product Naming — Google Is the Other Microsoft

Antecessor Hypotheticum

Apple Paves the Way For Apple

Why — A Poem

App Anger — the Supersized-Mastodon-In-the-Room That Marco Arment Doesn’t See

Apple’s Graphic Failure

Why Microsoft Copies Apple (and Google)

Coders Code, Bosses Boss

Droidfood For Thought

Investment Is Not A Sure Thing

Exercise is Two Thirds of Everything

Dan “Real Enderle” Lyons

Fairness

Ignoring the iPod touch

Manual Intervention Should Never Make A Computer Faster

Predictions ’13

Paperless

Zeroth — Why the Century Number Is One More Than the Year Number

Longer Than It Seems

Partners: Believe In Apple

Gun Control: Best Arguments

John C. Dvorak — Translation To English

Destructive Youth

Wiens’s Whine

Free Will — The Grand Equivocation

What Windows-vs.-Mac Actually Proved

A Tale of Two Logos

Microsoft’s Three Paths

Amazon Won’t Be A Big Winner In the DOJ’s Price-Fixing Suit

Infinite Sets, Infinite Authority

Strategy Analytics and Long Term Accountability

The Third Stage of Computing

Why 1 Isn’t Prime, 2 Is Prime, and 2 Is the Only Even Prime

Readability BS

Lie Detection and Psychos

Liking

Steps

Microsoft’s Dim Prospects

Humanity — Just Barely

Hanke-Henry Calendar Won’t Be Adopted

Collatz Conjecture Analysis (But No Proof; Sorry)

Rock-Solid iOS App Stability

Microsoft’s Uncreative Character

Microsoft’s Alternate Reality Bubble

Microsoft’s Three Ruts

Society’s Fascination With Mass Murder

PlaysForSure and Wikipedia — Revisionism At Its Finest

Procrastination

Patent Reform?

How Many Licks

Microsoft’s Incredible Run

Voting Socialist

Darwin Saves

The Size of Things In the Universe

The Self-Fulfilling Prophecy That Wasn’t

Fun

Nobody Was In Love With Windows

Apples To Apples — How Anti-Apple Pundits Shoot Themselves In the Foot

No Holds Barred

Betting Against Humanity

Apple’s Premium Features Are Free

Why So Many Computer Guys Hate Apple

3D TV With No Glasses and No Parallax/Focus Issues

Waves With Particle-Like Properties

Gridlock Is Just Fine

Sex Is A Fantasy

Major Player

Why the iPad Wannabes Will Definitely Flop

Predators and Parasites

Prison Is For Lotto Losers

The False Dichotomy

Wait and See — Windows-vs-Mac Will Repeat Itself

Dishonesty For the Greater Good

Barr Part 2

Enough Information

Zune Is For Apple Haters

Good Open, Bad Open

Beach Bodies — Who’s Really Shallow?

Upgrade? Maybe Not

Eliminating the Impossible

Selfish Desires

Farewell, Pirate Cachet

The Two Risk-Takers

Number of Companies — the Idiocy That Never Dies

Holding On To the Solution

Apple Religion

Long-Term Planning

What You Have To Give Up

The End of Elitism

Good and Evil

Life

How Religion Distorts Science

Laziness and Creativity

Sideloading and the Supersized-Mastodon-In-the-Room That Snell Doesn’t See

Long-Term Self-Delusion

App Store Success Won’t Translate To Books, Movies, and Shows

Silly iPad Spoilsports

I Disagree

Five Rational Counterarguments

Majority Report

Simply Unjust

Zooman Science

Reaganomics — Like A Diet — Works

Free R&D?

Apple’s On the Right Track

Mountains of Evidence

What We Do

Hope Conquers All

Humans Are Special — Just Not That Special

Life = Survival of the Fittest

Excuse Me, We’re Going To Build On Your Property

No Trademark iWorries

Knowing

Twisted Excuses

The Fall of Google

Real Painters

The Meaning of Kicking Ass

How To Really Stop Casual Movie Disc Ripping

The Solitary Path of the High-Talent Programmer

Fixing, Not Preaching

Why Blackmail Is Still Illegal

Designers Cannot Do Anything Imaginable

Wise Dr. Drew

Rats In A Too-Small Cage

Coming To Reason

Everything Isn’t Moving To the Web

Pragmatics, Not Rights

Grey Zone

Methodologically Dogmatic

The Purpose of Language

The Punishment Defines the Crime

Two Many Cooks

Pragmatism

One Last Splurge

Making Money

What Heaven and Hell Are Really About

America — The Last Suburb

Hoarding

What the Cloud Isn’t For

Diminishing Returns

What You’re Seeing

What My Life Needs To Be

Taking An Early Retirement

Office Buildings

A, B, C, D, Pointless Relativity

Stephen Meyer and Michael Medved — Where Is ID Going?

If You Didn’t Vote — Complain Away

iPhone Party-Poopers Redux

What Free Will Is Really About

Spectacularly Well

Pointless Wrappers

PTED — The P Is Silent

Out of Sync

Stupid Stickers

Security Through Normalcy

The Case For Corporate Bonuses

Movie Copyrights Are Forever

Permitted By Whom?

Quantum Cognition and Other Hogwash

The Problem With Message Theory

Bell’s Boring Inequality and the Insanity of the Gaps

Paying the Rent At the 6 Park Avenue Apartments

Primary + Reviewer — An Alternative IT Plan For Corporations

Yes Yes Yes

Feelings

Hey Hey Whine Whine

Microsoft About Microsoft Visual Microsoft Studio Microsoft

Hidden Purple Tiger

Forest Fair Mall and the Second Lamborghini

Intelligent Design — The Straight Dope

Maxwell’s Demon — Three Real-World Examples

Zealots

Entitlement BS

Agenderle

Mutations

Einstein’s Error — The Confusion of Laws With Their Effects

The Museum Is the Art

Polly Sooth the Air Rage

The Truth

The Darkness

Morality = STDs?

Fulfilling the Moral Duty To Disdain

MustWinForSure

Choice

Real Design

The Two Rules of Great Programming

Cynicism

The End of the Nerds

Poverty — Humanity’s Damage Control

Berners-Lee’s Rating System = Google

The Secret Anti-MP3 Trick In “Independent Women” and “You Sang To Me”

ID and the Large Hadron Collider Scare

Not A Bluff

The Fall of Microsoft

Life Sucks When You’re Not Winning

Aware

The Old-Fashioned Way

The Old People Who Pop Into Existence

Theodicy — A Big Stack of Papers

The Designed, Cause-and-Effect Brain

Mosaics

IC Counterarguments

The Capitalist’s Imaginary Line

Education Isn’t Everything

I Don’t Know

Funny iPhone Party-Poopers

Avoiding Conflict At All Costs

Behavior and Free Will, Unconfused

“Reduced To” Absurdum

Suzie and Bubba Redneck — the Carriers of Intelligence

Everything You Need To Know About Haldane’s Dilemma

Darwin + Hitler = Baloney

Meta-ware

Designed For Combat

Speed Racer R Us

Bold — Uh-huh

Conscious of Consciousness

Future Perfect

Where Real and Yahoo Went Wrong

The Purpose of Surface

Eradicating Religion Won’t Eradicate War

Documentation Overkill

A Tale of Two Movies

The Changing Face of Sam Adams

Dinesh D’Souza On ID

Why Quintic (and Higher) Polynomials Have No Algebraic Solution

Translation of Paul Graham’s Footnote To Plain English

What Happened To Moore’s Law?

Goldston On ID

The End of Martial Law

The Two Faces of Evolution

A Fine Recommendation

Free Will and Population Statistics

Dennett/D’Souza Debate — D’Souza

Dennett/D’Souza Debate — Dennett

The Non-Euclidean Geometry That Wasn’t There

Defective Attitude Towards Suburbia

The Twin Deficit Phantoms

Sleep Sync and Vertical Hold

More FUD In Your Eye

The Myth of Rubbernecking

Keeping Intelligent Design Honest

Failure of the Amiga — Not Just Mismanagement

Maxwell’s Silver Hammer = Be My Honey Do?

End Unsecured Debt

The Digits of Pi Cannot Be Sequentially Generated By A Computer Program

Faster Is Better

Goals Can’t Be Avoided

Propped-Up Products

Ignoring ID Won’t Work

The Crabs and the Bucket

Communism As A Side Effect of the Transition To Capitalism

Google and Wikipedia, Revisited

National Geographic’s Obesity BS

Cavemen

Theodicy Is For Losers

Seattle Redux

Quitting

Living Well

A Memory of Gateway

Is Apple’s Font Rendering Really Non-Pixel-Aware?

Humans Are Complexity, Not Choice

A Subtle Shift

Moralism — The Emperor’s New Success

Code Is Our Friend

The Edge of Religion

The Dark Side of Pixel-Aware Font Rendering

The Futility of DVD Encryption

ID Isn’t About Size or Speed

Blood-Curdling Screams

ID Venn Diagram

Rich and Good-Looking? Why Libertarianism Goes Nowhere

FUV — Fear, Uncertainty, and Vista

Malware Isn’t About Total Control

Howard = Second Coming?

Doomsday? Or Just Another Sunday

The Real Function of Wikipedia In A Google World

Objective-C Philosophy

Clarity From Cisco

2007 Macworld Keynote Prediction

FUZ — Fear, Uncertainty, and Zune

No Fear — The Most Important Thing About Intelligent Design

How About A Rational Theodicy

Napster and the Subscription Model

Intelligent Design — Introduction

The One Feature I Want To See In Apple’s Safari.